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Poster: | clementinescaboose | Date: | Jun 4, 2011 10:45pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
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Poster: | clementinescaboose | Date: | Jun 4, 2011 10:58pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
This post was modified by clementinescaboose on 2011-06-05 05:58:51
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 9:30am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks is DEAD on...as CLIFF notes... |
BTrucks is "right on", IMHO, and yet, of course you're right that it doesn't really matter, BUT to know what others that "made it" have to say about their fellow travelers in the music biz counts a bit more, in my book, than what say, me or LiA or whomever here has to say.
EG, when Jack Bruce trots out a list of the best bass players ever, I listen. When Jerry and Mickey agree the night they saw CREAM that they (CREAM) were the "best frickin band in the World", it means something...
How much more it means I won't debate, but I think if we polled everyone here at the forum, the ranking of music talent would look something like this:
JG
PL
BK
BW + keybd players + Mickey (I am saying it's close enough for debate, but the top three are no brainers).
Does anyone think otherwise? Bob lovers might put him third, and fight the remaining folks, but BTrucks got it just about right it seems to me...
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Poster: | billydlions | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 10:09am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks is DEAD on...as CLIFF notes... |
The debatable statement is "Once and a while they would really lock in and find a groove. It was very few and far between but they would do it. The later years of the band it almost never happened."
I'll agree with the later years statement but to say they were locked in few and far between in the years 1968-1981 is flat out wrong! Isn't almost all of 1972, 1973 & 1977 viewed as being outstanding with very few exceptions? Summer of 1974 and I'll even throw in 1981 as being exceptional as well.
Then again we do not know the context of the statement, but does it really matter? It's not going to change my listening habits.
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Poster: | Cliff Hucker | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 10:47am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks is DEAD on...as CLIFF notes... |
I knew you would disagree with that statement billydlions :)
And later on Utopian will chime in here, link some shows from 1987 and claim that the Grateful Dead were locking in while Jerry was high on Persian, but the sad fact is Trucks was right about everything...
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Poster: | billydlions | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 11:07am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks is DEAD on...as CLIFF notes... |
Anyway Cliff, it's been a long time since we've had a good debate, but the golf course is calling my name right now.
BTW- fishing has been amazing down here the last few months. It almost makes me wish I had a boat!
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Poster: | Cliff Hucker | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 1:52pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks is DEAD on...as CLIFF notes... |
By my definition, I dont think the Grateful Dead "locked in" all that much prior to 1977.
To me locked in means a great deal more than just cohesive jamming. I don't think the playing style of the Grateful Deal lent itself to "locking-in" In fact quite the opposite is true. This is likely the reason that we enjoy their music so much. It's more about where they go than how they get there...
What have they been catching down in Stuart lately?
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Poster: | billydlions | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 7:22pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks is DEAD on...as CLIFF notes... |
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Poster: | utopian | Date: | Jun 6, 2011 4:53pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Wrong again. |
Apparently he was not partaking in 87 when he was in a clean mode.
Peace
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Poster: | jerlouvis | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 9:22am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
Second,I find the "every oncein a while they would find a groove" comment to be completely without merit since there are literally hundreds of examples of the band playing unique,complex and interesting music right here on the archive on such pieces as Dark Star,PITB,Other One,Eyes of the World,Bird Song and in a different manner on the rest of their catalog.
Finally,to infer that Keith and Weir weren't capable of "really playing" is ludicrous.While Keith might not have been a great pianist,he surely was very competent and fit the band perfectly,adding some beautiful and inventive piano and keyboard work.As for Weir's ability on guitar,it should go with out saying that he is a fine guitarist,singular in style.
Mr. Trucks sounds a little bitter perhaps jealous of the Dead's poularity.I find it funny that he would call out another bands music when his band is mired in the white boy blues genre and has not been relevant since Duane died in 1971.
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Poster: | duckpond74 | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 10:58pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
Then how do you explain the ending on the 45 rpm single version of Dark Star?
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Poster: | jerlouvis | Date: | Jun 6, 2011 9:08am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
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Poster: | duckpond74 | Date: | Jun 6, 2011 11:23am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
I get your point jerlouvis, and I'll agree that we all can hear things differently . . . but, your having not heard that strange and silly 2:44 Dark Star single, let my tongue-in-cheek response to your banjo comment - specifically with you mentioning Earl Scruggs - fall flat. To let you know, after a quick paced, jaunty '68 style Dark Star that features chorused vocals, sitar-like sounds, a brief acoustic guitar bit - and no improvisation whatsoever - the tune ends with Jerry reciting prose while playing a short, brisk, and a very strong Earl Scruggs style banjo bit. . . . I actually responded, 'cuz I thought your Scruggs / banjo comment was alluding to the single. Some time when you have 3 minutes to spare and want to see why a Dark Star / Earl Scruggs relationship does indeed exist, check it out. I know of one musician who took up banjo and has made a comfortable living all because he was so taken with that bit on the single. . . . funny old world.
Along these lines, I've always felt that what many folks call the 'Mind Left Body Jam' was bluegrass and banjo influenced. Your thoughts or comments would be welcome.
And, by the way, I agree with much of what both you and Butch Trucks have stated . . . we all hear it differently.
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Poster: | light into ashes | Date: | Jun 6, 2011 6:15pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
I doubt this. I think it may sound this way cause Jerry's fingerpicking the chords sometimes - and on 9/21/72 it does come out of that bluegrassy jam, kind of like a cross with the Goin' Down the Road intro. But fingerpicking arpeggios doesn't necessarily mean Jerry's channeling the banjo....any more than his using the slide in the Mind Left Body jam means it was influenced by blues slide playing! It was kind of a combination of everything....
Actually I hear more of a bluegrassy element the way Jerry plays that extended outro to Playing in the Band they'd do in '74!
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Poster: | jerlouvis | Date: | Jun 6, 2011 4:41pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
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Poster: | Cliff Hucker | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 10:40am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
I enjoy the music of the Grateful Dead a great deal more than that of the Allmans. There is a reason that we collect GD shows. Do the performances of the Allmans vary as much as those of the Grateful Dead. Is one Allman Brothers Band live rendition of "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" or "Statestboro Blues" that different from any other?
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Poster: | leftwinger57 | Date: | Jun 7, 2011 3:33pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
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Poster: | midnightcarousel | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 1:08pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
Four sides comprising seven titles--only two of them repeated (ad infinitum) from the band's studio albums--and they sure do boogie. But even if Duane Allman plus Dickey Betts does equal Jerry Garcia, the Dead know roads are for getting somewhere. That is, Garcia (not to bring in John Coltrane) always takes you someplace unexpected on a long solo. I guess the appeal here is the inevitability of it all. B-
This succinctly summarizes by feelings about the Allmans vs. the Dead. The A.B.s are at their best with shorter jams (I'm talking 10-15 minutes) with lots of solo trading. None of the individual members could hold my attention for more than a few minutes (even Duane). Elizabeth Reed from the above mentioned album is a great cut, but the soloing, although very skillful, is pretty straightforward rhythmically and harmonically.
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Poster: | jerlouvis | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 1:32pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
Garcia in his prime was far more interesting and all around superior player to the highly over rated Mr. Clapton,as for the tandem of Lesh/Kreutzman in relation to Bruce/Baker I see that as a push.While Cream's music was good it was just straight ahead rock and roll,and how hard is that.I don't hear anything that Bruce/Baker tandem played that Lesh/Kreutzman couldn't handle.
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 4:01pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
This is not to say we don't all like the DEAD more, but any discussion among serious musical sorts discussing the 60s ALWAYS includes EC, JB & GB, and though it pains us, not necessarily JG (but they should), PL (probably should), and BK (not so sure). A number of bass players in successful bands from the 80s mention JB as an inspiration (in my readings anyhow) but not our man Phil...not sure why, but perhaps worth considering.
Still, overall body of work? Of course we find more to the DEAD. But I am talking a narrow aspect of pure skill/talent.
We'll have to agree to disagree on BK vs GB; I am not sure that is even up for discussion unless we go "apples and oranges" on the taste biz...
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Poster: | jerlouvis | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 5:15pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
For me this topic wasn't so much about which music is better,but once again another jerkoff like Butch Trucks speaking about something he is obviously unqualified to comment on.Just because you play an instrument doesn't automatically qualify you as an expert on all musical topics,Gene Simmons and Kenny G are and I don't care to hear their opinions.I don't think he would enjoy Weir saying the Allman's music is well practiced,derivative horseshit and that the only talented members are dead(Duane,Berry),kicked out(Dicky),or hired guns(Warren,Derek).As a fellow musician who knows these guys for 40 years and last year had them join (Weir,Phil) his band onstage you would think he could keep these petty remarks to himself.
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 8:12pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
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Poster: | clementinescaboose | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 9:21pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
This post was modified by clementinescaboose on 2011-06-06 04:21:13
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 10:57am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
A la the Broken Record, I have all the CREAM shows, and Jack, Ginger and Eric would certainly agree with Butch BUT as with the ABB, as amazing as what CREAM could do, it is something you can only listen to for a few yrs straight (har) before you've heard it all. They are much tighter, and would view, as they noted, that the DEAD were not in their league, and that is true, like it or not.
Endless noodling, wanderings, latter era lack of energy and innovation, etc., were (oftentimes) hallmarks of the band we love, so of course other great musical talents will scratch their heads at the long time interest and hero worship.
I am certain JBruce could have done anything with a bass that Phil could, but lacking the other components of the DEAD on stage (and absent the interest, no doubt), he didn't, but that's what being unique and individualistic (so critical in all 'artforms') is all about it seems to me.
Hope all is well with the fish, and your pursuits of them, D; been a while...
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Poster: | Cliff Hucker | Date: | Jun 5, 2011 2:03pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related) |
The new boat I'm running has Serius but the mix I have been hearing has been disapointing. Lots of studio music and plenty of later era junk :(